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Post by Teddy Regpala on Sept 24, 2009 17:23:45 GMT
I'm wondering about that too Mark, why don't they make tripods with bigger base? Can't they reverse the design? I bet that'll be revolutionary.
Anyway Toto, I'm glad you found where the problem is. This is a good lesson too for everyone reading this thread.
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Post by Romy Ocon on Sept 24, 2009 22:44:30 GMT
Glad you got back your confidence on your combo's AF, Toto! Another technique when hand holding or shooting off a flimsy tripod is to fire short bursts. This "poor man's IS" increases the chances that at least one of the burst is shot in between "shake cycles" and such shot can be sharp. Hi Mastah, Neon I guess the problem is really the shake caused by a mirror slap. I experimented this morning and I think you both are right that shake is the culprit. What I did this morning validated your assessment. Here is what I did, I shot some feathers at just about the MFD and the lens wide open, on a tripod with a remote control. In the 5 (one shot AF) shots I made, 3 frames were a bit off. I repeated the sequence and I consistently am getting the same result. Next, I placed a 2-kilo bag of rice on top of my rig to dampen the vibrations and execute the same sequence, and voila ... perfect 5. I repeated the same sequence 2 more times and not a single frame were missed. I then removed the remote control and shoot it with my fingers on the shutter and same result. I got everything cleared. Yey! I'll have a better tripod next time. But the trick would be the 2 kilo rice bag! I got to figure out how to get one designed for birding Can't wait to bird again to test these findings! Big thanks to both of you!
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Post by Edu Lorenzo Jr on Sept 24, 2009 23:16:42 GMT
Hehehe. I have to figure this out yet. Whatever works as long as i get a lot of keepers. sabi nga ni edu, I would probably need a chair hehe. Hey how did my name end up here? ;D I was suggesting a few things to Toto actually. I have read once there are photogs who use a menagerie of "techniques" to dampen mirror slap. They range from doing the mirror up + remote shooting, placing a bag of mercury or a heavy bean bag on top of the rig, some even use bungee cords attached to the lens and tripod to dampen the vibration. All these come at one commonality, they all address mirror slap, which seems to be Toto's problem. Toto, 2kilos might be overkill maybe you can settle for the weight diff between your former nikon rig and your current canon rig and just add that? I personally would go for the bungee cord, then the bean bag (as I can use the bean bag for other stabilization needs). A new tripod will do wonders I guess, as you have already expressed discontent with your current tripod's limited height (tangkad mo kasi But at the end of the day, for me at least, it is the experience of watching and observing our avian friends, their behavior, and stand in awe at how they survive even with man's encroachment of their habitat. The nice pics are only secondary for me (but this is a bird photography forum of course). Go for the new tripod, go for a beanbag, a bungee cord or even 2 kilos of rice. What's important will be that you go out birding with the confidence that you will bring home very nice pics. Going "watch bird - take photos - enjoy" is better than "watch bird - will the photo be good? - take photo - wonder if it was ok - enjoy"
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Post by JV Noriega on Sept 25, 2009 2:15:26 GMT
Hi Toto, my other set up is a 50d and 400 5.6L also. With fill flash, at 1/250s handheld, or on tripod, i use f/8 most of the time and and do adjusting on flash output. Without flash, i almost never go below 1/800 sec to ensure fine focus and good detail. I just crank up the ISO to maintain my desired shutter speed of not less than 1/800. I have noticed that there is not much difference in IQ between ISO 200 and ISO 640 on the 50d. --- just a bit of info from my side.
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Post by mantarey on Sept 25, 2009 2:17:25 GMT
Qoute from Mastah Romy: Glad you got back your confidence on your combo's AF, Toto! Another technique when hand holding or shooting off a flimsy tripod is to fire short bursts. This "poor man's IS" increases the chances that at least one of the burst is shot in between "shake cycles" and such shot can be sharp. _____________________________________________________________________ Great piece of advice from the Mastah. I always use this "The Poor Man's IS" whether it's a static or BIF shot. Always on HS mode and I will take as many burst with adjustments on exposures (manual bracketing) and sometimes even the Orientation format as the time allows, it's basically a numbers game. Almost always, I'll be able to get at least one shot that I like.
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Post by Toto Gamboa on Sept 27, 2009 11:05:40 GMT
Sorry fo rthe late reply. I was stranded somewhere in the forest of Subic when Ondoy devastated Metro Manila. Been following this thread too and hopefully I'd be able to apply the tips discussed here once I get my 400mm. I remember Mark made a comment on my tripod's during the Baler sortie. Hi Toto. I'm no expert with these stuff but if I remember it correctly, the tripod's lowermost legs were relatively thin (as compared to other tripods of the same load capacity), which I believe is affecting the stability. Yep I remember that It was actually in that trip that I suspected I have a problem with the tripod I had. But that Baler trip made introduced me to the world of Canon so attention was refocused on shifting .. rather than knowing the problem with the NIkon + Sigma setup. I'm wondering about that too Mark, why don't they make tripods with bigger base? Can't they reverse the design? I bet that'll be revolutionary. That make sense Teddy. My lolo who was a carpenter was an avid fan of that design. He would always design the legs of his chairs and stools that way. But that would be a design challenge for tripod makers. Anyway Toto, I'm glad you found where the problem is. This is a good lesson too for everyone reading this thread. Thanks Ted, after birding amidst the storm Ondoy, I can say that the weight works It actually worked so great! I'll try to post shots with the Weights on later. Glad you got back your confidence on your combo's AF, Toto! Another technique when hand holding or shooting off a flimsy tripod is to fire short bursts. This "poor man's IS" increases the chances that at least one of the burst is shot in between "shake cycles" and such shot can be sharp. Thanks Mastah. I am actually doing this already. But usually 2-3 frame burst. I might increase the burst a bit like 5-7 frames. Hehehe. I have to figure this out yet. Whatever works as long as i get a lot of keepers. sabi nga ni edu, I would probably need a chair hehe. Hey how did my name end up here? ;D I was suggesting a few things to Toto actually. I have read once there are photogs who use a menagerie of "techniques" to dampen mirror slap. They range from doing the mirror up + remote shooting, placing a bag of mercury or a heavy bean bag on top of the rig, some even use bungee cords attached to the lens and tripod to dampen the vibration. All these come at one commonality, they all address mirror slap, which seems to be Toto's problem. Toto, 2kilos might be overkill maybe you can settle for the weight diff between your former nikon rig and your current canon rig and just add that? I personally would go for the bungee cord, then the bean bag (as I can use the bean bag for other stabilization needs). A new tripod will do wonders I guess, as you have already expressed discontent with your current tripod's limited height (tangkad mo kasi But at the end of the day, for me at least, it is the experience of watching and observing our avian friends, their behavior, and stand in awe at how they survive even with man's encroachment of their habitat. The nice pics are only secondary for me (but this is a bird photography forum of course). Go for the new tripod, go for a beanbag, a bungee cord or even 2 kilos of rice. What's important will be that you go out birding with the confidence that you will bring home very nice pics. Going "watch bird - take photos - enjoy" is better than "watch bird - will the photo be good? - take photo - wonder if it was ok - enjoy" Thanks Edu. No need to compute the difference of the weight of my old rig now. I got the magic number already. 2 pounds worked like a charm. Hi Toto, my other set up is a 50d and 400 5.6L also. With fill flash, at 1/250s handheld, or on tripod, i use f/8 most of the time and and do adjusting on flash output. Without flash, i almost never go below 1/800 sec to ensure fine focus and good detail. I just crank up the ISO to maintain my desired shutter speed of not less than 1/800. I have noticed that there is not much difference in IQ between ISO 200 and ISO 640 on the 50d. --- just a bit of info from my side. Thanks JV. Interesting info. I'd surely try and find this out. Great piece of advice from the Mastah. I always use this "The Poor Man's IS" whether it's a static or BIF shot. Always on HS mode and I will take as many burst with adjustments on exposures (manual bracketing) and sometimes even the Orientation format as the time allows, it's basically a numbers game. Almost always, I'll be able to get at least one shot that I like. THanks Rey. I'll surely increase the burst in my next outing to increase my chances of keepers.
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Post by gabriel buluran on Dec 1, 2009 8:39:32 GMT
this is an enlightening read. i have questions though:
I use a D80 with about 3.5 fps burst, Manfrotto 055proxb tripod (7kg load capacity) with Benro KB-0 ball head, and a Bigma. Once in a while a put a 2X Kenko TC.
The pictures I get are on the soft side even if the subject is very still.
1. Is my tripod enough for the set up? 2. If the tripod is okay, could it be the ball that is not handling the mirror slap well? 3. The Bigma has no stabilization so I am trying the poorman's IS. Is the 3.5 maximum burst of the D80 enough to lessen the effect of the mirror slap. 4. Am thinking of acquiring a "rice bag". Anyone has a picture of how it is set up? Am curious as to how it is installed on the tripod or used in a car window.
Thanks very much!
Still hoping to get a Gimbal Head soon.
Cheers!
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Post by Tonji Ramos on Dec 1, 2009 10:22:06 GMT
I just read this thread. Regarding the 50D and the 400 f5.6 combo: Our first tripod was horrible. It was carbon but heavy and unstable. One of the carbon tubes actually cracked. Our second tripod was a Manfrotto 190PROB. It is a bit small rated at 5 kilos max it should be enough, its ok but eventually we felt we needed more stability. We now use this for our scope not our cameras. Our third tripod a Manfrotto 055CXPRO3. This worked really well with the 50D and 400 f5.6 combo. Its rated at 8 kilos max. It only has three sections and the bottom section is still quite beefy. Its paired with the Manfrotto gimbal and its a great tripod size for your combo. A stable base made a lot of difference in the photos. I would get the bigger tripod rather than the just right tripod. Another thing that helped a lot is shooting in live view with the remote shutter cable. In live view the mirror is up so there is much less vibration. Plus using the remote cable also reduces vibration. In addition it allows for a 10x view so you can check your focus and if its not sharp go into manual focus and fine tune while on 10x view. Right now I am using the monster Manfrotto 475B for my 500mm, it has a maximum of 12kg. Its a beast at 4.3 kilos but its cheaper than carbon and super stable. The legs can spread super wide to increase stability. But I see you are adding to your weight with a rice bag. Maybe you might want to try a bigger tripod instead. Its good to have the proper base if you want to do slower shutter speeds on small subjects. Lastly, I agree with Romy and Rey. I take a lot of photos if its a great subject! Hope this helps.
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Post by Bobby Kintanar on Dec 1, 2009 22:48:09 GMT
this is an enlightening read. i have questions though: I use a D80 with about 3.5 fps burst, Manfrotto 055proxb tripod (7kg load capacity) with Benro KB-0 ball head, and a Bigma. Once in a while a put a 2X Kenko TC. The pictures I get are on the soft side even if the subject is very still. 1. Is my tripod enough for the set up? 2. If the tripod is okay, could it be the ball that is not handling the mirror slap well? 3. The Bigma has no stabilization so I am trying the poorman's IS. Is the 3.5 maximum burst of the D80 enough to lessen the effect of the mirror slap. 4. Am thinking of acquiring a "rice bag". Anyone has a picture of how it is set up? Am curious as to how it is installed on the tripod or used in a car window. Thanks very much! Still hoping to get a Gimbal Head soon. Cheers! Gabs, can you post a sample photo for us to analyze? It will really help in determining what's causing your problem. Post a full frame shot and then make a crop from that shot and post that too. :-)
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Post by gabriel buluran on Dec 1, 2009 23:55:44 GMT
Thanks for the reply Tonji and Bobby. Here goes: Full Frame model: NIKON D80 f stop: F/7.1 exposure: 1/60 sec. focal length: 500.0 mm flash: flash did not fire (0) metering mode: spot (3) dimensions: 2400x1607 shutter speed (tv): 5.9 Cropped
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Post by ppaaoolloo on Dec 2, 2009 0:13:33 GMT
gabs was it a smokey/foggy day? When did you take the shot?
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Post by Bobby Kintanar on Dec 2, 2009 0:20:14 GMT
Gabs, from the photos (though small for better inspection) I gather that the focus does seem to be spot-on, but there is a possibility that your Bigma is front/back focusing at this shooting distance. Also, have you tried shooting the Bigma at f/8 or f/9? From my experience, those apertures are the optimum for that lens.
MIrror-slap: Try using Mirror-lock up. I'm not familiar with Nikons, but anytime you are forced to shoot below 1/125, MLU should be employed, with at least a 2 second "rest" time before triggering the shutter. This ensures a vibration-free shot.
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Post by gabriel buluran on Dec 2, 2009 2:15:13 GMT
paolo,
to my eyes it did not seem foggy but there is possibility my eyes just got used to it. i took the shot between 6 and 7 in the morning and the temperature in tagaytay last weekend was rather cold.
bobby,
thanks! i will take the bigma for a thorough testing this weekend and play with mirror lock up as well as f8 an df9 opennings.
will post a new batch of test pics as soon as i get some.
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Post by gabriel buluran on Dec 2, 2009 2:17:12 GMT
Toto and Moderator,
Sorry for hijacking the thread. I see it's a 50D thread and here I am asking about my D80, Bigma observations.
Will start a new thread when I am done with further tests.
Cheers!
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Post by mantarey on Dec 2, 2009 2:27:32 GMT
I think the poor resolution of this image is because of too much cropping, there's not just enough pixels for the image to have good resolution. The D80's maximum resolution is 3872 x 2592, the cropped image image is approximately 10% of the whole image which must be about 350 pixels only, not enough resolution there. That's why getting closer to the subject is always the best way to get detailed high resolution images. Just my two cents.
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Post by ppaaoolloo on Dec 2, 2009 2:31:55 GMT
paolo, to my eyes it did not seem foggy but there is possibility my eyes just got used to it. i took the shot between 6 and 7 in the morning and the temperature in tagaytay last weekend was rather cold. If it is mist/fog then you will have to get closer to thin the water vapor out.
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Post by Toto Gamboa on Dec 2, 2009 3:32:07 GMT
Hi gabs ... perfectly ok to use this thread for your concerns. I think I was able to solve my problem with the more than adequate tripod (as tonji has said) and the 2 pound dampener. My tripod is the aluminum 755XB for videos. Looks very sturdy, it is rated to handle 7kg of weight. Without the dampener it lessens my chances of keepers though. I notice that with the dampener and practicing the suggested long lens techniques, I have increased my chances of getting a keeper. I rarely miss a keeper now if given enough time to properly setup. Even in a very difficult position, I still get lucky a bit. As for the dampener and how I use it, I thought you were able to see it when Alain tested it in UPD when you were there too. I bought the weights (usually a leg or arm weights with straps) in a sports shop for less than 300 pesos. it has a velcro strap in it. I just position it a few inches away from the center of balance and near the body of the camera. I think the poor resolution of this image is because of too much cropping, there's not just enough pixels for the image to have good resolution. The D80's maximum resolution is 3872 x 2592, the cropped image image is approximately 10% of the whole image which must be about 350 pixels only, not enough resolution there. That's why getting closer to the subject is always the best way to get detailed high resolution images. Just my two cents. I would agree with Rey. Seems the shot is really that far away. a 10MP sensor would not be enough to get more pixels for a distance like that. You could have gone closer. for a 500mm on a 10MP camera, from the sample shot you posted, i could estimate that you are too far with the flycatcher. YOu might want to test your rig's limits too and know its comfort ("quality") zones like the level of quality in terms of X distance from the subject. I have known mine and when a situation tells me that I am still beyond the comfort zone, I just snap a docu shot and would attempt to get closer taking insurance shots as I get nearer to the subject. Then I have practice patience and quality control. Gone are the days when I am too excited to just take pictures the moment I have the subject on my viewfinder. What I do now is take a docu shot first then reset myself and carefully think of the best possible way I can execute the shot. That includes maneuvering the vehicle to get a better position. You would often hear us, "recheck!" or "teka teka, baliktad ang sasakyan, u-turn muna". Then as we do that, the bird is gone! lols! It is difficult but I am enjoying the results. Knowing the positive results now, I could have practiced these when I was just starting. This way I could have avoided going thru all my list again and take a carefully taken shot (which unfortunately I am trying to do now). Sorties are expensive so I really need to at least get a few quality shots during each trip. I get lucky if I get a lot.
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Post by Toto Gamboa on Dec 2, 2009 3:33:10 GMT
And to add, how long have you been using your D80 gabs?
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Post by gabriel buluran on Dec 2, 2009 3:56:08 GMT
Thanks everyone! All valuable inputs.
Toto, I didn't notice the dampener when I was there. Must have thought it was part of a very sophisticated contraption.
I was positioned at the edge of a "cliff" when i took the shot. Di na makalapit. My D80 has been with me since May, 2008.
Cheers!
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Post by Mark Itol on Dec 2, 2009 4:42:51 GMT
I think the poor resolution of this image is because of too much cropping, there's not just enough pixels for the image to have good resolution. The D80's maximum resolution is 3872 x 2592, the cropped image image is approximately 10% of the whole image which must be about 350 pixels only, not enough resolution there. That's why getting closer to the subject is always the best way to get detailed high resolution images. Just my two cents. Agree with Rey, I think this is basically a matter of distance from/to the subject, as the uncropped photo illustrates. Keep on shooting, Gabs.
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