Mystery pigeon/dove species at Coastal Lagoon

[Romy Ocon]

I was photographing water birds at Coastal Lagoon this morning when this pigeon-looking bird flew very fast and quite low near me. It came in from the sea and flew eastward. It was alone, and I managed only one recognizable photo.

It could just be a domesticated pigeon or a feral one, but it looks like some sort of an imperial pigeon to me. Offhand, I couldn't find a quick match in the Kennedy Guide.

Anybody has ideas?

Addendum - I photographed it from the same spot where I captured a Spotted Dove in flight a few days back. To my eyes, this mystery bird is noticeably larger than a Spotted Dove.

[Romy Ocon]

It's now looking more like a Green Imperial-Pigeon to me.

EDIT - here are reference shots of the GIP taken at various times in Subic.

[Eric Patdu]

The bird sure resembles an Imperial Pigeon but the eye color, bill color and brownish breast and belly makes me lean towards a female Spotted Imperial Pigeon. Plus, you mentioned that it is noticeably larger than a Spotted Dove. I would say that a D. aenea would be much larger than an S. chinensis whereas a D. Carola would be noticeably larger.

It is quite odd though that an imperial pigeon is in the Coastal Lagoon as both D. aenea and D. carola are forest birds.

Would be interesting to know what the experts think.

[steve pryor]

Oct 11, 2010 2:32:43 GMT Romy Ocon said:

I was photographing water birds at Coastal Lagoon this morning when this pigeon-looking bird flew very fast and quite low near me. It came in from the sea and flew eastward. It was alone, and I managed only one recognizable photo.

It could just be a domesticated pigeon or a feral one, but it looks like some sort of an imperial pigeon to me. Offhand, I couldn't find a quick match in the Kennedy Guide.

Anybody has ideas?

Addendum - I photographed it from the same spot where I captured a Spotted Dove in flight a few days back. To my eyes, this mystery bird is noticeably larger than a Spotted Dove.

Hi Romy,
Can you put this particular photo in relation to your last post (the one with three pigeon photos)? Different bird?

[steve pryor]

Romy,
Your posting with three photos, yes, that is what it is, Ducula aenea, so I confirm those photos.

[Adri Constantino]

Hi Romy,

If it is any help, we have also seen a lone Green Imp in coastal lagoon a few years back. I think I was with Feargus Crystal during that sighting.

Congrats!

[Romy Ocon]

Steve, sorry if I got you confused.

The first photo (reposted below) is the mystery bird for ID.

The three photos posted after it are of confirmed Green Imperial-Pigeons all taken at various times in Subic, and intended as reference to help ID the first photo.

Oct 11, 2010 5:42:44 GMT steve pryor said:

Oct 11, 2010 2:32:43 GMT Romy Ocon said:

Hi Romy,
Can you put this particular photo in relation to your last post (the one with three pigeon photos)? Different bird?

[Romy Ocon]

Oct 11, 2010 4:39:31 GMT Eric Patdu said:

The bird sure resembles an Imperial Pigeon but the eye color, bill color and brownish breast and belly makes me lean towards a female Spotted Imperial Pigeon. Plus, you mentioned that it is noticeably larger than a Spotted Dove. I would say that a D. aenea would be much larger than an S. chinensis whereas a D. Carola would be noticeably larger.

It is quite odd though that an imperial pigeon is in the Coastal Lagoon as both D. aenea and D. carola are forest birds.

Would be interesting to know what the experts think.

Thanks for the comments, Eric and Adri.

I have tons of photos of the Green IP taken at Subic, and I usually recognize it at first glance because of its huge size.

What baffles me on this one is the size - between a Spotted dove and a Green IP. Also, its breast and belly area appeared darker than its upper neck/head area.

Here's another photo of this morning's bird. This was frame 9360 while the first posted photo was 9361. As you can see, it's terribly out of focus, as the bird was coming very fast and the 1D4 fired before it can grab focus. Good that frame 9361 was more in focus. I'm posting it here because some color info on the underparts may be useable.

[steve pryor]

Romy,
Well, there is no doubt on the genus. It is certainly a Ducula. The rufous blotches ventrally are giving me pause, as well as the color of the iris. I will try and dig into my books to see what non-adult plumages are described as.

[Romy Ocon]

Looking forward to your analysis, Steve.


I've posted this too at the WBCP e-group, and Pavel H. opines that it's an immature Spotted IP.

Here's reposting Pavel's expanation for the benefit of non-WBCP members (I hope Pavel won't mind):

my reasons [for the ID] are:
the bill, eye and lined edge of upper tail coverts and the size and shape of primaries (shown on the left wing) telling me this is a juvenile imperial
the upper breast and belly, the color of the upper tile coverts, the color of the eye and the entire shape (Somehow less protruded breast- no macho appearance typical for green imperial :-) then the size- I know there is nothing to compare but somehow it looks smaller..
tho I don"t dear to say the sex yet in this age as Immature Spotted imperials look both sexes as sort of pale female - depends of age indeed but the bird in Romy's photo looks like to be less hen 3 months old (wich is usually the time when the sexulal dimorphism start to show..)
best
Pavel

[steve pryor]

Romy, this is just a toss-off, a half-baked observation that still needs to find a home. I had thought of the Ducula that Pavel is mentioning. It could be that, but I have to still look at what I can find in my books. However, I might be a bit more gung-ho on that idea if the rusty blotching were confined to where I would expect it to be in the adult, but here we have this rusty blotching all the way up near the neck! So, I still have not formulated a good opinion.

[Ivan Sarenas]

Just to add to the mix of information - the closest sighting of the Spotted Imperial Pigeon to Manila is that of the one on OBI seen at Makiling. From reading all the trip reports at Travelling Birder it has been seen at Hamut, Sablayan and Picop. All of which are primary forest. This bird has now become rarer in all those places and Tim Fisher especially said that this was almost a sure bird to see before, at Picop but has not been seen with regularity by his tours from these past few years.

Hence, my guess is that this is not a carola

[Neon Rosell II]

From the descriptions above and the observed behavior of D. carola as being nomadic could explain why it was flying in the coastal area coming from the sea. The next nearest forested area is the mountains in Bataan. It could well be a seasonal migrant among the remaining patches of forest depending on food availability.

[Romy Ocon]

Oct 11, 2010 19:36:53 GMT Neon Rosell II said:

From the descriptions above and the observed behavior of D. carola as being nomadic could explain why it was flying in the coastal area coming from the sea. The next nearest forested area is the mountains in Bataan. It could well be a seasonal migrant among the remaining patches of forest depending on food availability.

If this turns out to be D. carola on a seasonal migration flight, I must be extremely lucky. The odds that somebody with a camera will be at the right spot at the right time when this uncommon pigeon passed by are unbelievable. If it flew a hundred meters off the course it took, I'd never have seen it. Also, I was planning to shoot video that morning but decided on the last minute to do BIFs instead. If I were in video mode with a 2x TC on, there's no way I'd have captured the BIF.

Hehehe.... I need to start betting on lotto! ;D


Neon, if it were a D. carola on a seasonal migration flight, from the course it took, the origin appears to be from Cavite perhaps Palay-palay and it was flying eastward probably towards the Sierra Madre.

[Romy Ocon]

Des A. just posted this at the WBCP e-group. I'm re-posting it here (in italics) to consolidate the comments on the ID.

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I can only load an extremely low resolution pic (attached) of the first one (possibly my dialup connection is refusing the large file), but it seems to have a red eyering, and a red bill with a whitish tip. The second pic I can load and it seems to show red feet as well. All these features fit with Pavel's ID [Spotted Imp has a white inner iris with a red outer ring . The iris seems to be broken in front of the pupil, perhaps extending the pupil for wider angle vison.]

All my video material shows Green Imperial with greyish legs and feet, as do Romy's pics. The KG says it has purplish red legs. Is that an error or is it seasonal?

cheers
Des


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A headshot of a Spotted IP posted by Des:




I enlarged the head area of the mystery bird for comparison. The broken iris in front of the pupil can be seen too.

[Romy Ocon]

Re-posting here Pavel's response to Des at the parallel ID discussion in the WBCP e-group.

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Dear Des,

many thanks for your input. Interesting.

I thing this Spotted Imperial photographed by Romy (Romy thanks again for this unique shot) is no more then one ore two months post fledgling juvenile. Which can be seen on unfeathered base of the more pinkish and more glossy bill then an adult would have - the gape seems to be also more prominent. In this age the iris is darker then that of the adult and the outer eye ring is pale not red yet.

Very interesting observation with the feet of the GREEN Imperial Pigeon. I never noticed that before and it seems not many others either(for example the Gibb's Pigeons of The World seems to have the same error).

So I've done a bit more of research and concluded how did may had happened:

The most commonly kept in captivity (and hereby the most familiar) of 13 or so subspecies of wildly distributed Ducula aeaea seems to be D. aenea paulina from Talaud, Sulawesi and associated islands. And this ssp. I would say really has purplish red legs. But as you correctly noticed the nominate ssp. which cover most of the Phillipines has what I would describe as purplish gray legs and feet (also noticed that D. a. palawanensis has the same color of the feet as nominate ssp. tho not sure about D.a.nucalis and fugaensis)

Best
Pavel
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[Romy Ocon]

With the advantage of being able to work from the camera RAW files, I tried to extract the maximum amount of recorded info from the photos. Here's a montage of various details of this bird for reference.

[Romy Ocon]

Thanks to Pavel and Eric P. for posting at the WBCP egroup reference pics of young Spotted IP in captivity. These appear to suppport and confirm that the Coastal Lagoon bird is an SIP. I'm reposting the photos here for the benefit of non-WBCP members.

Sub-adult, courtesy of Pavel:




Immature, courtesy of Eric P.

[Romy Ocon]

Based on the inputs from Pavel, Eric and Des, I've now finalized the ID of this bird to an immature D. carola.

[Ivan Sarenas]

Congrats on this rarity Mastah! That discussion was the very best that I'd ever witnessed in the WBCP forum. I also read in Threatened Birds of the Philippines that the SIP has this behavior of visiting the coast, unique among forest Duculas.