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Post by JP Cariño on Feb 4, 2008 16:54:22 GMT
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Post by JP Cariño on Feb 4, 2008 16:55:06 GMT
i want the kestrel marts!
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Post by Bobby Kintanar on Feb 5, 2008 2:24:59 GMT
Neon and Steve, if you don't mind, the barrings on the ventral part of Neon's photo plus the blueish-green gradations on the birds back seem to point out "Crow-billed Drongo" to me (Plate 48 KG). I ain't no expert on these matters, but can you guys take a second look? Does that race occur in Thailand?
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Post by Neon Rosell II on Feb 5, 2008 3:02:53 GMT
Neon and Steve, if you don't mind, the barrings on the ventral part of Neon's photo plus the blueish-green gradations on the birds back seem to point out "Crow-billed Drongo" to me (Plate 48 KG). I ain't no expert on these matters, but can you guys take a second look? Does that race occur in Thailand? Yes, Bobby, both Black and Crow-billed Drongo can be found in Thailand. The photos I took from Bangkok is surely a Black Drongo due to the distinguishing small loral spot and the deep fork on the tail as compared to a Crow-billed. The tail of an adult Black Drongo would have a deeper fork but the ones Martin and JP captured has a shallower one, this is due to, it is still a first winter plumage. This is the reason also why I IDed it as a Crow-billed earlier. The loral spot could be seen in the photos of the Drongo Martin and JP photographed. So that brings us to a Black Drongo ID. It's more of a white tip gape than lores to me? Is this still considered as lores? I'm no expert as well, I just happen to have the Birds of Thailand book by Craig Robson. ;D Now, we have a dilemma, It is not included in the KG!! So this species would up our count to 615A Big Congratulations to Martin and JP is in order!! Now lets go back there and hunt it!! Cheers, Neon
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Post by Bobby Kintanar on Feb 5, 2008 3:55:21 GMT
Oh, okay Neon. The Black Drongo has no photo in the KG, so I guess tha;s what it is. :-)
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Post by steve pryor on Feb 5, 2008 9:04:20 GMT
Just a couple of definitions:
Lore (loral region): the area between the eye and base of the upper mandible. Intended to be thought of as being in a rather straight line between these two structures. Sometimes, you might have structures displaced slightly above this virtual straight line and in this case you may have e.g., a supraloral, v. Pycnonotus bimaculatus which has orange supraloral maculae.
Maculum (sometimes macula) (s.); maculae (pl.) - a fancy word meaning simply a "spot".
Rictal: refers to the area of the mandibular commissure (the hinge where the two mandible meet).
So, the Black Drongo does not have a loral spot - it has a punctiform whitish structure in the zone of the mandibular commisure called a rictal maculum (aka rictal spot).
EDIT: It must be noted if trying to compare the degree of bifurcation of the retrical terminus, that the tail of this bird (the first bird uploaded) is pretty worn (so one has to imagine the degree of bifurcation of the tail if the bird had fresh tail feathers).
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Post by Neon Rosell II on Feb 5, 2008 12:01:04 GMT
Just a couple of definitions: Lore (loral region): the area between the eye and base of the upper mandible. Intended to be thought of as being in a rather straight line between these two structures. Sometimes, you might have structures displaced slightly above this virtual straight line and in this case you may have e.g., a supraloral, v. Pycnonotus bimaculatus which has orange supraloral maculae. Maculum (sometimes macula) (s.); maculae (pl.) - a fancy word meaning simply a "spot". Rictal: refers to the area of the mandibular commissure (the hinge where the two mandible meet). So, the Black Drongo does not have a loral spot - it has a punctiform whitish structure in the zone of the mandibular commisure called a rictal maculum (aka rictal spot). Thanks Sir Steve!! for teaching us the specific terminology for this topographical feature. So, how do we classify this bird if it is not a "new record" and it's not listed on any of the bird list for the Philippines (Clement's, Howard and Moore, and KG) we know? It's not listed on any of the WBCP's records published in their website. Cheers, Neon
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Post by steve pryor on Feb 5, 2008 12:17:31 GMT
Just a couple of definitions: Lore (loral region): the area between the eye and base of the upper mandible. Intended to be thought of as being in a rather straight line between these two structures. Sometimes, you might have structures displaced slightly above this virtual straight line and in this case you may have e.g., a supraloral, v. Pycnonotus bimaculatus which has orange supraloral maculae. Maculum (sometimes macula) (s.); maculae (pl.) - a fancy word meaning simply a "spot". Rictal: refers to the area of the mandibular commissure (the hinge where the two mandible meet). So, the Black Drongo does not have a loral spot - it has a punctiform whitish structure in the zone of the mandibular commisure called a rictal maculum (aka rictal spot). Thanks Sir Steve!! for teaching us the specific terminology for this topographical feature. So, how do we classify this bird if it is not a "new record" and it's not listed on any of the bird list for the Philippines (Clement's, Howard and Moore, and KG) we know? It's not listed on any of the WBCP's records published in their website. Cheers, Neon Pending confirmation by the others in the Records Committee, if confirmed it would be a second country record (there is one from Candaba though I personally have not seen the documentation - Arne has it, but I knew about it). The Excel Bird Master List on the Club site is rather outdated. The Records Committee now has the question under advisement and we are in the intial stages of reviewing the taxonomy and nomenclature and inserting the new species records since the redaction of the existing list. It will probably take at least a couple of months before we have done everything and reached a consensus list (that will be thereafter uploaded to the site), and we hope (the members of the Records Committee that is) to submit it to Romy with a view of its' forming the taxonomic basis for the Photodatabase of this site!
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Post by Neon Rosell II on Feb 5, 2008 12:33:36 GMT
Pending confirmation by the others in the Records Committee, if confirmed it would be a second country record (there is one from Candaba though I personally have not seen the documentation - Arne has it, but I knew about it). Sir Steve, Was the bird photographed as well when it was first recorded or this would be the first photographs of this bird in habitat in the Philippines, if confirmed! Martin / JP, Anybody scheduled to go hunt this bird again??? Lets do it before I get incarcerated next week. Cheers, Neon
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Post by steve pryor on Feb 5, 2008 12:36:56 GMT
Neon, My understanding is that the putative first record was based on a description, not on photos, but I am just not absolutely sure...
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Post by JP Cariño on Feb 5, 2008 12:37:51 GMT
neon this thursday, lets leave early
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Post by Neon Rosell II on Feb 5, 2008 12:41:49 GMT
neon this thursday, lets leave early OK call!! ;D anybody else interested?? Cheers, Neon
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Post by Neon Rosell II on Feb 5, 2008 12:43:19 GMT
Neon, My understanding is that the putative first record was based on a description, not on photos, but I am just not absolutely sure... Thanks Sir Steve!! Cheers, Neon
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Post by mantarey on Feb 5, 2008 13:09:45 GMT
I'm game. Where do we EB
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Post by JP Cariño on Feb 5, 2008 13:25:28 GMT
petron slex 6am
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Post by Eric Patdu on Feb 5, 2008 13:40:03 GMT
Just a couple of definitions: Lore (loral region): the area between the eye and base of the upper mandible. Intended to be thought of as being in a rather straight line between these two structures. Sometimes, you might have structures displaced slightly above this virtual straight line and in this case you may have e.g., a supraloral, v. Pycnonotus bimaculatus which has orange supraloral maculae. Maculum (sometimes macula) (s.); maculae (pl.) - a fancy word meaning simply a "spot". Rictal: refers to the area of the mandibular commissure (the hinge where the two mandible meet). So, the Black Drongo does not have a loral spot - it has a punctiform whitish structure in the zone of the mandibular commisure called a rictal maculum (aka rictal spot). EDIT: It must be noted if trying to compare the degree of bifurcation of the retrical terminus, that the tail of this bird (the first bird uploaded) is pretty worn (so one has to imagine the degree of bifurcation of the tail if the bird had fresh tail feathers). I really love reading the posts of Sir Steve. It's always nice to read something hard to understand. ;D It's like listening to senate hearings with all those legal jargons. ;D Helps keep the brain active.
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Post by Martin Alvendia on Feb 5, 2008 13:45:37 GMT
neon this thursday, lets leave early OK call!! ;D anybody else interested?? Cheers, Neon I'm There!!! My new Nemesis Bird will have its day!!! Haha!!!
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Post by steve pryor on Feb 5, 2008 15:02:18 GMT
[/quote] I really love reading the posts of Sir Steve. It's always nice to read something hard to understand. ;D It's like listening to senate hearings with all those legal jargons. ;D Helps keep the brain active. [/quote] Well, my most recondite intent has been unveiled! It has always been my aim to articulate in the most abstruse manner possible so that no one can guess my ken! Probably the real reason is that I have lost all of my slang English. I seldom speak English, and only write it - I have always preferred speech that is able to convey nuance, and I have an uncommon command of the English vocabulary - always have had it - it is my second language and I had to study it to learn it.
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Post by tina mallari on Feb 5, 2008 15:20:39 GMT
neon this thursday, lets leave early OK call!! ;D anybody else interested?? Cheers, Neon Mee ! meeee ! Meeeeee ;D ;D ;D crossing my fingers & toes that my dry cabinet will not be delivered on thursday otherwise I have to stay home
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Post by Eric Patdu on Feb 5, 2008 16:10:00 GMT
Well, my most recondite intent has been unveiled! It has always been my aim to articulate in the most abstruse manner possible so that no one can guess my ken!
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