My new 7D has a bad sensor :(

[Romy Ocon]

Well, after scrutinizing hundreds of shots taken in the field, my new 7D appears to have a bad sensor - noise is so excessive that it's tough to use even at ISO 400! The noise has a mottled appearance, and is non-bearable at ISO 320-1250. This appears to be a known QC issue and certainly not a design problem. The beta 7D and production 7D I tested had much better noise performance (though those are still noisier than my 40D at the pixel level).


Here's a couple of links as regards mid-ISO mottled noise issue:

forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=33281726

marvelsfilm.wordpress.com/2009/10/16/canon-swapped-my-7d/


It appears to be a hardware calibration problem, and I've already informed Canon Manila (through Toni Cuesta) on this. I'll bring my camera to Canon Service tomorrow, together with ISO 400 RAW files from the new 7D, and from the two units I tested, to show the disparity of noise levels. Tough luck for me, the AF of this 7D is as great as the production unit I tested. This type of mottled noise issue can only be diagnosed after shooting many shots in various lighting and shooting conditions, hence cannot be known at the camera store.

Lesson learned? The 7D is such a complex machine that some bad copies do get into stores. It's best to buy a locally warrantied unit so problems like this can be dealt with more easily. The 7D is a great camera otherwise.


Will keep this thread updated on the progress of resolution of the issue.

[Ely Teehankee]

I do not understand a lot of the technical terms that you used but I could see from the pictures that you have posted here and also those taken in Candaba are not of the same IQ as pictures you took with all your other cameras. It is good that there is a warranty attached to the camera you bought and I hope that they will be able to address this problem soon.

[Edu Lorenzo Jr]

Wow. This is where warranty really comes in handy. But something else has played a crucial part, the scrutiny. Honestly, I would not have been able to discern the difference if the unit landed in my hands. Of course if there was 'lower' quality on the 7D, I would have blamed it on myself.

I hope your unit gets fixed as soon as possible mastah.

And thank you for this thread. Very educational.

[Tonji Ramos]

Thanks for the heads up on this Romy.

[Bobby Kintanar]

That is exactly what we are seeing in Osawa's 7D! The photos look amazingly crisp on the camera's LCD screen, but when viewed 100% on a monitor, the "mushiness' is evident, and the noise seems to be a true "hardware" fault. I don't think any amount of "calibration" will fix it - the body has to be replaced.

I think the 7D sensors are not coming from the same production line. Some are better than others, and it's not clear what batch is good or not. I hope Canon will just replace your unit Ka Mastah. Heck, if they could not repair my 1D2 after several months already, how much more this new technology thingy?

[Romy Ocon]

Thanks for the comments, Guys.

I'll update this thread regularly so it can be a reference for others who will have to undergo such an issue resolution process in the future.

I've submitted the faulty 7D to Canon Service. Their ace technician Rommel and I had an in-depth discussion on the issue. It helped a lot that I have RAW samples from 3 copies of the 7D, as these can easily show the problem. I think Rommel agrees that the new 7D's noise is not what it is supposed to be. Interestingly, Rommel said that they have a software solution that might be able to address the noise problem.

The battle plan as I understood it is (1) try to adjust the system via software, and (2) if that doesn't work, just replace the faulty 7D with a new unit.

It will take about 7 working days to do this process, plus some more days for me to verify/confirm in the field that the software adjustment (or the replacement new 7D, as the case maybe) is good enough. With this month's working days limited to up to tomorrow only, I'm looking at the first couple of weeks of January 2010 to have the issue resolved. Meantime, Rommel is working hard to secure me a service unit so I can shoot with something before my 7D is ready.

With DSLRs becoming more complex with each new model, I foresee that such sensor issues (with any brand) will be more common in the future. These things are mass-produced, and QC systems are designed to strike a fine balance between cost and product reliability. Inevitably, some faulty units will reach the store shelf, and that's where after-service matters. It's great that CMPI is assisting me as best as they can, though I'd rather have a good camera in the first place.


With this experience, my in-store test workflow for new camera purchases has changed to as follows:

1. Test for obvious operational defects, particularly AF system, dead pixels, alignment of viewfinder to the sensor, etc.

2. Once a body passes this preliminary test, I'll make a deposit on that body and ask the store to reserve it for me for 24 hours (I'll record the serial number to make sure what I tested will be what I'll get).

3. Before leaving the store, I'll take some test RAW shots at various settings for pixel-peeping in my calibrated desktop. This will reveal any sensor-related artifacting issue.

4. If the pixel-peeping is successful, then I'll return to the store and pay the unit in full. If not, I'll look at another copy and start the whole process anew.

Buying photo gear has now become a complicated matter, and such test-before-committing-purchase process has become necessary to prevent a repetition of my current experience. Getting it right the first time is better than rectifying it after the the purchase, even if the after-sales service of the distributor is great.

[Ding Carpio]

Sorry to hear about your 7D, master.

You're right. Cameras are getting to be more complex and more difficult to test. I recall the early days of DSLRs when I brought my laptop to JT photoworld and ran a deadpixeltest on the 350D I was buying then. They accommodated me cheerfully.

I can imagine the test-before-you-buy process can get to be too complex nowadays. Really good to buy from a reputable store and have good relations with Canon.

[Romy Ocon]

Dec 28, 2009 3:43:40 GMT Ding Carpio said:

Sorry to hear about your 7D, master.

You're right. Cameras are getting to be more complex and more difficult to test. I recall the early days of DSLRs when I brought my laptop to JT photoworld and ran a deadpixeltest on the 350D I was buying then. They accommodated me cheerfully.

I can imagine the test-before-you-buy process can get to be too complex nowadays. Really good to buy from a reputable store and have good relations with Canon.

Yes, pre-purchase testing has become so complex and cumbersome, that I'm tempted to open my own dealership of pre-tested cameras and lenses. The brand new gear will be pre-tested for AF performance and sensor integrity, and even micro-AF adjustment, before such is sold to the buyer. Such gear will be labeled "Brand new warrantied units, pre-tested and certified to be performing to exacting Birdnuts Standards." Of course, these will be sold at a slightly higher price than regular retail, but the buyer will have peace of mind as soon as he/she parts with the cash, or swipes the plastic. ;D

[Ding Carpio]

Ahhh...well. Since I commiserate with you, Master, may I offer assistance in testing your 7D when it gets back? I promise a full regimen of tests that will probably take only 3 to 4 months. Of course, I will need to attach it to your 500mmL or Sigmonster to conduct intensive testing.

[Teddy Regpala]

Ouch.
It's sad to hear that it all boils down to quality control. In a way, its good because we know it can be fixed. At that price point, we can only expect that a product is fully tested and working as designed.
It's been so common nowadays, that they're making consumers beta testers.

I hope they replace your 7D with a better body. Since it's relatively new, I doubt they can/have a fix for it right away.

[Romy Ocon]

Thanks, Ding and Ted.

UPDATE - Dec. 29, 2009:

1. CMPI has given me a service unit (another 7D) which I can use until the issue with mine is resolved.

2. I had another technical discussion with Rommel, and he said he'll just recommend a replacement of the faulty 7D with a new one. Rommel, CMPI's chief technician, appears to agree with me that the noise at ISO 400 of the said unit is excessive.

3. I'm hopeful that my brand new replacement unit will be released on the week Jan. 4 - 9, 2010. Meantime, I can continue to shoot with the service unit. I highly appreciate the support of CMPI so far, and I'm not losing much shooting opportunities because of the service unit.

4. It's interesting to note that the service unit has normal noisel levels at ISO 400, much better than my puchased unit.

[Bobby Kintanar]

That is great news, Ka Mastah! Perhaps you can put in a word for me to Rommel to speed up the repair of my 1Dm2 as well? Hehehe.

[Romy Ocon]

Dec 29, 2009 12:41:09 GMT Bobby Kintanar said:

That is great news, Ka Mastah! Perhaps you can put in a word for me to Rommel to speed up the repair of my 1Dm2 as well? Hehehe.

Yes, great news indeed Bobby. I don't wish that I get a defective sensor very often, but when my luck sometimes runs out, I'm glad that the warranty issuer has such a great service!

As regards the repair of your 1D2, I suggest that you email Toni Cuesta with the particulars, introduce yourself as a mod of PBPF. I'm under the impression that the service guys only react to the initiative of the marketing guys (CMPI's service is now under the marketing department), hence you might get faster results by asking Toni for help.

Toni's email: [e-mail]

Good luck!

[Bobby Kintanar]

Oi, thank you very much again for the contact info. I will write to him after this post. :-)

[Romy Ocon]

Just to update this thread - CMPI called last Saturday to inform me that my new replacement 7D is already available for pick up. I'll pick it up on Monday morning. I hope it's a good copy. The service unit I've used for almost a month (I shot over 3K frames) is a great copy, and I almost don't want to return it. ;D