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Post by donsausa on Oct 19, 2010 11:24:59 GMT
What is this room? It is not a ladies' room, is it? Wow, the deliberations are loooong. Men, o men... You and I know that there are a lot of courtesy remarks in the forum. Encouraging one another is one skill that all of us should be sharp at before anything else. This is a great forum where we learn many things. Photography is CAPTURE. Whatever you capture is fine... just don't use the net. Whatever you shoot is fine, just don't use the gun. When you use the camera, be good at it, share and be happy. If you win a contest, celebrate! For the losers... there are no losers! The losers are those who do not even recognize the Master Creator of all the subjects he shoots. When one worships the created and not the Creator, when one has becomes a slave to his gears, that spells L.O. S.E.R. Shoot with joy, share with joy. Watch, teach, learn, have fun! No one is better than the one who is always happy and thankful for the gift of nature. Make every trip, every capture a worship to the one who said "Look at the birds of the air..." telyds in a happy mood, always in a happy mood LOL amen to that sister. :-) Thanks for the timely reminder.
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Post by mantarey on Oct 19, 2010 11:37:26 GMT
Push back, educate, share some more. I'm sure everyone has taken some "bad" pictures, too blurry, overblown highlights, not sharp, etc -- but what makes them "great" photographs in the field of science is if it records an event that's never been recorded before. I am not sure about this. I do separate photography as an art as against photography for documentation. my personal rule is that, I only post images in the Wild Birds of the Philippines section primarily to get confirmation if my photos are pleasing to the eyes and not to please the scientist in us. So just like everyone else, when my pic isnt satisfactorily pleasing to my eyes, I also brand it as docu shots. if i get to please both photographers and scientist, much better. This is when we also get to determine what is the norm. Aside from setting the norm for great shots, there is also a norm for docu shots. The problem starts when some shots that closely resembles that of docushots (or worse botch shots) are regarded as some kind of genre (aka deviation from the norms). I do agree though that we all get bad shots. In my case though, I dont force myself in trying to post bad shots, unless perhaps it is the only pic i have of a rare bird. But I know when I have overblown my highlights, I know when I have screwed sharpness on critical parts of the bird, I know when cropping doesnt work. When my photo sucks, the photo simply goes straight to my PC's trash bin. I dont have to doubt myself and find out if others might like it. I agree with you Toto. First of all this forum is about Bird Photography emphasis on the word Photography. Although we’re very interested in some scientific facts about our feathered friends and making sure that our ID's our very accurate, we leave the science part to our birdwatching friends and the experts in our other group, the WBCP. This is not a scientific forum, this is about creating the best bird images that we can muster. That’s why we don’t encourage posting of bad photographs unless it’s from a beginner, still on his way to creating better photos or like you said, it is a documentary shot of some rare birds for record purposes. If you will remember, one of the major purposes of our Org is and I quote “to elevate wild bird and nature photography and imaging in the Philippines to world class standards.” We don’t create bird images for science’s sake although the forum is a very good resource for bird researchers and scientist. We create photographs with emphasis on the technicals and aesthetic qualities not just to photograph birds for “documentary purposes”. I think this is where the misunderstanding lies from new members of the forum who are not yet aware of this fact.
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Post by Nilo Arribas Jr. on Oct 19, 2010 12:10:23 GMT
Wow… the barrage of responses covered a lot of grounds here...
Guys, Don posted something about his point of view on composition and general thoughts on photographs which are really a matter of personal tastes (nothing wrong with that at all). In fact, I’m not questioning Don’s personal preference. However, I find his idea interesting since I think it is not “mainstream” in this board.
Aside from that, Don also posted thoughts of someone who I believe is "SELLING" the idea of how to look at photography/photos in general.
I consider myself as a "BUYER" of ideas, concepts, methodologies etc and shared my personal view of how I select those that I will seriously consider. It’s like sharing a workflow and so you can either take it or discard it completely. My personal circumstances do not allow me a lot of time to sift through a lot of verbiage/textual concepts. Therefore those who can show me visual product differentiation (this being a photography forum) will be given more weight. Again, this is how I shortlist the channels I want to listen to. Yours may be different and it is perfectly alright.
Btw, I really appreciate Enrique’s posting since this clearly illustrates his point. Now whether you will "buy" this or not is really a personal choice.
I hope this will not discourage other members from sharing their thoughts.
Thanks.
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Post by Mark Itol on Oct 19, 2010 12:11:53 GMT
This is not a scientific forum, this is about creating the best bird images that we can muster. We create photographs with emphasis on the technicals and aesthetic qualities not just to photograph birds for “documentary purposes”. Straight to the point, Rey. We strive hard to produce quality bird photos, not documentaries. To be able to do so we abide by the "rules" (or norms) on how to make such aesthetic photos. Anyone can break these "rules" if he/she wants to, but the results better be convincing. And yes, I do believe we are here to impress -- to show to the world our rich avian wildlife through quality photos.
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Post by donsausa on Oct 19, 2010 12:18:19 GMT
Totally agree on this point.
Agree here as well.
-Don
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Post by donsausa on Oct 19, 2010 12:23:45 GMT
Certainly an aim for sure. No one wants to show trash photos on purpose in any avenue. But if you do have a photo that isn't up to par but it raises awareness since it's new that hasn't been recorded, something that's vulnerable, or isn't typically recorded in their range, I would at least try to post it even if it's not up to snuff.
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Post by Lydia Robledo on Oct 19, 2010 12:32:42 GMT
"And yes, I do believe we are here to impress -- to show to the world our rich avian wildlife through quality photos" Mark Itol.
Oh you mean to create AWARENESS! Great photographs to create AWARENESS. Now, now... that's the thing that puts the best value on this forum's great photographs. If a picture can paint a thousand words... the photographers can keep silent. ;D
Bravo, Mark! telyds
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Post by Neon Rosell II on Oct 19, 2010 12:40:03 GMT
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Post by donsausa on Oct 19, 2010 13:45:51 GMT
Didn't expect godzilla to pop out off my screen Neon.
Where did you shoot that?
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Post by Neon Rosell II on Oct 19, 2010 13:55:58 GMT
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Post by donsausa on Oct 19, 2010 14:07:20 GMT
A local conservation group (NFEFI) told me about this place.
Did you come from Dumaguete? If so, do you know how long it took approximately to get to Twin Lakes?
I will be in the area this weekend for business but I might 'accidentally' bring my camera equipment.
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Post by Neon Rosell II on Oct 19, 2010 14:18:54 GMT
A local conservation group (NFEFI) told me about this place. Did you come from Dumaguete? If so, do you know how long it took approximately to get to Twin Lakes? I will be in the area this weekend for business but I might 'accidentally' bring my camera equipment. No, it was my first time there, it just so happened that I accidentally dropped my camera in my bag as well. I'm sure we are not the only ones that met this accident here. About 1hr drive from Dumaguete, maybe less, the roads are not that passable this time of year, we barely made it, as it has some washed out portions. Don't know if the locals repair it at once. Better ask first if the road is passable.
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Post by Enrique Frio on Oct 19, 2010 14:40:20 GMT
Wow, just a few hours gone and so many responses are here! Let me digest them and I'll give some more thoughts in a while.
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Post by donsausa on Oct 19, 2010 14:44:57 GMT
It's officially a monster thread. It went from topics of composition to whether photography is only for aesthetics and not documentation to godzilla.
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Post by steve pryor on Oct 19, 2010 16:06:38 GMT
Well, my two cents. Obviously this is foremost a photography forum, and that is as it should be, however, personally I keep my critiques to myself usually because my slant on bird photos is entirely different.
If recording a new species in the Philippines, or a new island extension for a known species, means having to slog through some sometimes not great photography, i.e., poor record shots, don't forget to post them anyways! Even if they are crap photos! Don't throw out poor shots of birds you don't know until you figure out what they are, and if the shot is really worthless.
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Post by Enrique Frio on Oct 20, 2010 2:37:39 GMT
Quick reply - I'm with Steve on this. For a scientist AND photographer, this forum gives me so much in both fields that it is really a one-stop resource for me. I have posted photos of Thai birds and in the background compared them with Philippine subspecies, which I have found intellectually enlightening and of course aesthetically pleasing.
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Post by Tonji Ramos on Oct 21, 2010 4:53:39 GMT
Regarding bird photos....my thoughts. I am a birder and a photographer. I can't split the two. I will take a super ugly photo just to get the proper ID of a bird. I find a lot of enjoyment in finding new birds. Sometimes its backlit, too far, or in an ugly perch. Despite this I will probably take the photo because a new or strange bird is more interesting to me than a perfect shot. One of my worst photos ever is a docu shot of a Mallard in Candaba. I posted it here and in WBCP. Strangely its my most used and published photo. Whaaaat? I will be known for blurred pics. Haha. What I am trying to say is that each picture has its uses and maybe we may not like it for its technical or artistic merits but other people may find it very useful. I have been spending the past two hours downloading 5 CF cards and looking at the strange birds I have been taking the past few weeks. I am looking at pics of this Candaba snipe behind, is it Swinhoe's or Common? I am looking at a very blurred strange duck, black head yellow beak. Is it a new duck in Candaba or just a domestic? What are these strange parrot type pair flying in coastal? I will look thru them again to try to figure them out. Super fun and engrossing even if nothing comes out of the exercise. If I can't figure them out then I can post it here and ask. This forum is a great resource for learning about birds. I can't stress that enough. Lets not fight in this forum regarding how we present our pictures. Romy Ocon, is for me the best bird photographer here. His body of work is really unmatched for its quality. But he does not tell people bad things about their work, even if he has the most right to do so because he has the highest level of skill. Personally, I am inspired by his posts and I learn by seeing how far I have to go to get better. He just posts his pics according to his own high standards. I feel lucky to be able to learn from his example and from the good things I learn from the other excellent photographers in this forum. There is so much enjoyment I get from our hobby. I've flown to Olango just for the day to see the birds. I've driven 12 hours thru the night without sleep to see mountain birds. I've walked till I was dizzy to try to get a bleeding heart on the top of a mountain. I am sure you have all done your share of crazy things in your birding. I just have to say, wow, what a great hobby! We are all such passionate birders that we do such insane things just to see and photograph a bird in the wild. Since Neon put a lizard as an aside I will put a monkey. He is wondering, "Hey, whats happening here?"
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Post by tina mallari on Oct 21, 2010 5:07:10 GMT
Amen to that Tonj. Well said But you know what Tonj.... sisip !!!! LOL just kidding my friend. HEhEHheHEHehHEhe
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Post by Bobby Kintanar on Oct 21, 2010 5:53:03 GMT
To ADD to the Lizard and Monkey (beautiful shot and pleasing composition), I have this Horse-drawn Carriage composed as if it's on it's way out. Why? Because the theme was "Making Way for the Future" - which leads me to introduce another aspect of photography: The Artist's Interpretation - how one presents an idea when faced with restrictions in subject matter.
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Post by gabriel buluran on Oct 21, 2010 6:37:46 GMT
the horse drawn cart seem to be coming in and passing me by... i'd rather it was going the other direction... blurred... riding towards the sunset type of shot. hahaha...
just kidding bobby! i know little about composition and am learning a lot from this forum. and even from this thread!
that's why i enjoy this hobby and enjoy visiting the forum, even during workhours!
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